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	<title>Comments on: Why Do They Do it? &#8211; Follow up</title>
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	<link>http://kungfucopywriter.com/101/why-do-they-do-it-follow-up/</link>
	<description>Copywriting &#124; Tips &#124; Tricks \&#039;n Stories</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:30:35 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Seth Chong</title>
		<link>http://kungfucopywriter.com/101/why-do-they-do-it-follow-up/comment-page-1/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Chong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 19:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kungfucopywriter.com/2008/04/24/why-do-they-do-it-follow-up/#comment-21</guid>
		<description>Thanks Stuart, I appreciate this post.

It&#039;s been an ethical direct mailing strategy, but the way they&#039;ve used it on the Internet lately might get a little on the evil side, especially when it&#039;s planned in such perfection.

I thought Joel&#039;s page still looks believable, as its short and usually doesn&#039;t take too long to create copy like this.

The picture though...hm, if he&#039;s a quick-minded creative entrepreneur, it&#039;s possible. I have to agree though, it makes people go...

&quot;hm...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Stuart, I appreciate this post.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s been an ethical direct mailing strategy, but the way they&#8217;ve used it on the Internet lately might get a little on the evil side, especially when it&#8217;s planned in such perfection.</p>
<p>I thought Joel&#8217;s page still looks believable, as its short and usually doesn&#8217;t take too long to create copy like this.</p>
<p>The picture though&#8230;hm, if he&#8217;s a quick-minded creative entrepreneur, it&#8217;s possible. I have to agree though, it makes people go&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;hm&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: KokPang</title>
		<link>http://kungfucopywriter.com/101/why-do-they-do-it-follow-up/comment-page-1/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>KokPang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:27:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kungfucopywriter.com/2008/04/24/why-do-they-do-it-follow-up/#comment-20</guid>
		<description>Stuart,

I feel you can&#039;t fault Joel for turning the &#039;public apology&#039; into a sales opportunity. I think any seasoned marketer would have done that.

Now, whether the forced continuity was a genuine mistake I&#039;ve no idea. But I did know about it when I bought Joel&#039;s Adsense Secrets &#039;cos I read that part of the sales page.

There was no way I could avoid it though &#039;cos there simply wasn&#039;t an option to opt out when I bought on Apr 17 (my time, probably Apr 16 Joel&#039;s time). There was only 1 item of AS4+Newsletter at checkout IIRC. I figured I could cancel the newsletter later since I know about it.

I heard later it was changed to 2 items: 1 for AS4 and 1 for Newsletter at checkout. And then now of course it&#039;s very clearly 2 options at the sales page.

You might be interested to know this: As a customer of AS4, I haven&#039;t officially received any email about the &#039;public apology&#039; nor the forced continuity of the newsletter. There was a mention of the newsletter in the welcome email but nothing about continuing subscriptions. BTW, I&#039;m also on Joel&#039;s other lists which I don&#039;t recall seeing any mention of this hoo-hah.

Maybe I missed the &#039;apology&#039; email or the message was buried deep in one of the emails, being away and having lots to catchup and what not. When I got the news through other lists I&#039;m on, I went back to search through the emails: Nothing. (To be fair, I won&#039;t say I scrutinize everything though.)

Don&#039;t ask me how I feel about Joel &#039;cos I&#039;m not sure myself. I&#039;m just adding my own bit of first-hand experience to this whole incident.


KokPang</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stuart,</p>
<p>I feel you can&#8217;t fault Joel for turning the &#8216;public apology&#8217; into a sales opportunity. I think any seasoned marketer would have done that.</p>
<p>Now, whether the forced continuity was a genuine mistake I&#8217;ve no idea. But I did know about it when I bought Joel&#8217;s Adsense Secrets &#8216;cos I read that part of the sales page.</p>
<p>There was no way I could avoid it though &#8216;cos there simply wasn&#8217;t an option to opt out when I bought on Apr 17 (my time, probably Apr 16 Joel&#8217;s time). There was only 1 item of AS4+Newsletter at checkout IIRC. I figured I could cancel the newsletter later since I know about it.</p>
<p>I heard later it was changed to 2 items: 1 for AS4 and 1 for Newsletter at checkout. And then now of course it&#8217;s very clearly 2 options at the sales page.</p>
<p>You might be interested to know this: As a customer of AS4, I haven&#8217;t officially received any email about the &#8216;public apology&#8217; nor the forced continuity of the newsletter. There was a mention of the newsletter in the welcome email but nothing about continuing subscriptions. BTW, I&#8217;m also on Joel&#8217;s other lists which I don&#8217;t recall seeing any mention of this hoo-hah.</p>
<p>Maybe I missed the &#8216;apology&#8217; email or the message was buried deep in one of the emails, being away and having lots to catchup and what not. When I got the news through other lists I&#8217;m on, I went back to search through the emails: Nothing. (To be fair, I won&#8217;t say I scrutinize everything though.)</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t ask me how I feel about Joel &#8216;cos I&#8217;m not sure myself. I&#8217;m just adding my own bit of first-hand experience to this whole incident.</p>
<p>KokPang</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Traynor</title>
		<link>http://kungfucopywriter.com/101/why-do-they-do-it-follow-up/comment-page-1/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Traynor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 19:02:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kungfucopywriter.com/2008/04/24/why-do-they-do-it-follow-up/#comment-19</guid>
		<description>Stuart

I was one of the internet marketers who initially promoted Joel&#039;s product, having missed the almost-hidden forced continuity.

When people started pointing this out to me, I immediately contacted all my subscribers and put up a blog post on the topic.

I also contacted Joel directly, and he commented on my blog:

http://www.marketingsparks.com/archives/208

Subnsequently, following a lot of protests, including from some well-known people such as Dr. Mani, he then published the apology.

Yes, I agree that the apology page was also a sales page, so it would be possible to view this with a certain amount of cynicism.

But I hope that Joel has learnt from his error - and I do think that he hadn&#039;t realised how so many people would have thought it a sneaky tactic.

Regarding the BBB logo, Joel&#039;s company is, indeed a member. See here:

http://wynco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=98&amp;bbb=0805&amp;firm=46013275

Hope this helps

Regards

Ian Traynor
Professional Webmaster
----------------------</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stuart</p>
<p>I was one of the internet marketers who initially promoted Joel&#8217;s product, having missed the almost-hidden forced continuity.</p>
<p>When people started pointing this out to me, I immediately contacted all my subscribers and put up a blog post on the topic.</p>
<p>I also contacted Joel directly, and he commented on my blog:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.marketingsparks.com/archives/208" rel="nofollow">http://www.marketingsparks.com/archives/208</a></p>
<p>Subnsequently, following a lot of protests, including from some well-known people such as Dr. Mani, he then published the apology.</p>
<p>Yes, I agree that the apology page was also a sales page, so it would be possible to view this with a certain amount of cynicism.</p>
<p>But I hope that Joel has learnt from his error &#8211; and I do think that he hadn&#8217;t realised how so many people would have thought it a sneaky tactic.</p>
<p>Regarding the BBB logo, Joel&#8217;s company is, indeed a member. See here:</p>
<p><a href="http://wynco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=98&amp;bbb=0805&amp;firm=46013275" rel="nofollow">http://wynco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=98&amp;bbb=0805&amp;firm=46013275</a></p>
<p>Hope this helps</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>Ian Traynor<br />
Professional Webmaster<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
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